2006Benchmarking India’s business process outsourcersA new methodology for measuring the performance of remote providers shows that while clients are mostly satisfied, there is significant room for improvement.
Noshir F. Kaka, Shailesh S. Kekre, and Saipriya Sarangan
Web exclusive, July 2006India, having captured 46 percent of the global business-process-offshoring (BPO) market, is the leading offshore destination and will probably remain so for some time. But competition is intensifying there (and in other popular offshore destinations) as more companies compete to supply such services.
Running a customer service center in India: An interview with the head of operations for Dell IndiaRomi Malhotra shares insights on recruitment, retention, and developing talent.
Noshir F. Kaka
Web exclusive, May 2006RunningDell's recent announcement that it intends to double its staff in India, to more than 20,000 people by 2009, was widely recognized as a vote of full confidence in the country's development. For Dell, India represents not only a rapidly growing consumer market—its annual demand for five million PCs is expected to double by 2010—but also a huge talent pool for transaction processing, R&D, and IT operations, as well as a potential manufacturing base.
Although late to offshoring, pharma companies stand to benefit at least as much as those in other industries.
Michael Bloch, Ajay Dhankhar, and Shankar Narayanan
Web exclusive, July 2006As executives across industries grow used to cost savings from low-cost offshore labor, they're exploring ways of tapping this workforce to generate additional revenue, improve core business processes, and offer more value to customers (see "
Taking offshoring beyond labor cost savings").
Building a global IT organization: An interview with DPWN's managing director for ITStephen McGuckin explains how the company consolidated its IT operations and developed a unique model for outsourcing and offshoring.
Michael Bloch and Marcus Schaper
Web exclusive, May 2006Few companies have as much on-the-ground familiarity with remote locations around the globe as Deutsche Post World Net, the corporate parent of Deutsche Post and DHL, a logistics and parcel delivery business. So perhaps it was natural that DPWN would emerge as a leader in the creation of a globally connected IT-development and operations model that has consolidated many of the company's once-fragmented application-development and data-processing locations into three supercenters, in Cyberjaya, Malaysia; Prague; and Scottsdale, Arizona, in the United States. Along with some outsourced help in India, these facilities keep DPWN's IT operations and development running around the clock. They are complemented by another application-development center, in Bonn, Germany.
Taking offshoring beyond labor cost savingsOffshoring becomes a powerful tool for business transformation once companies combine labor cost savings with other productivity and revenue-generating levers.
Vikash Daga and Noshir F. Kaka
Web exclusive, May 2006Most global executives know by now that offshoring can deliver more than just labor cost savings. A good offshore strategy should also generate new revenues, increase capital productivity, and manage risk in ways that would be unaffordable in home markets. (For a look at how offshoring plays out in the pharmaceutical industry, see "
Pharma leaps offshore.")
Article at a glance:The untapped market for offshore servicesProviders of offshored IT services and business processes have so far captured only 10 percent of a $300 billion opportunity. In the next five years, a study shows, this market will grow by an additional $80 billion.
· Traditionally outsourced IT services, such as hardware and software maintenance—which have seen very little offshoring to date—will probably drive the next wave of growth. Offshoring should increase more rapidly in business processes than in IT services; banking and insurance will likely lead the way.
· Further growth will come from new "offshore-only" services that go beyond the simple replication of onshore ones. This article includes the following exhibits: · Exhibit 1: IT services offshoring is experiencing rapid growth.
· Exhibit 2: Business process offshoring is growing even faster.
· Exhibit 3: Innovation can further expand the addressable market.
When social issues become strategicThe case for incorporating an awareness of social and political trends into corporate strategy has become overwhelming.
· Issues such as privacy, obesity, offshoring, and the safety of pharmaceutical products can alter an industry's ground rules, and the financial and reputational impact of mishandling these issues can be huge. But they also create new market opportunities that nimble companies can exploit.
· Companies should look for signs of emerging hot topics, be ready to respond to them early, and place a series of small strategic bets that will create value if the social and political landscape shifts.
· CEOs must be willing to ensure that different parts of their own organizations are united behind a coherent approach, to engage in external debate, and to consider collaboration with others. This article includes the following exhibits: · Exhibit 1: The social contract has formal and informal components. (Interactive)
· Exhibit 2: Emerging sociopolitical megatrends are shaping expectations. (Interactive)
· Exhibit 3: Articles in the
New York Times reveal a significant turn in the obesity debate.
· Exhibit 4: Organizational coordination is essential.
The McKinsey Global Survey of Business Executives : Business and Society Executives say they face a host of worries about society's expectations of their companies, which can—and must—do better.
Executives around the world overwhelmingly embrace the idea that the role of corporations in society goes far beyond simply meeting obligations to shareholders, according to the latest
McKinsey Quarterly global survey.
1 But executives also say that, for most companies, sociopolitical issues—such as environmental concerns and the effects of offshoring—present real risks. Indeed, finding ways to control them is so important, the executives say, that the effective management of sociopolitical concerns must start with the CEO.
Executives are far less certain, however, that corporations adequately anticipate which sociopolitical concerns will affect them. These executives also believe that the tactics—lobbying and public relations, for example—companies now use to meet such concerns are not the most effective ones. In addition, they think that the public will expect corporations to take on a significant role in handling the new pressures.
India's New Faces of Outsourcing High-Level Technicians Lead a Transcontinental Shift in Business Culture
PUNE, India -- Before he supervised teams, wooed American clients over dinner or sat in a Northern Virginia boardroom alongside U.S. executives, Constancio Fernandes wrote computer code for a living. That's how it started in the late 1990s -- American businesses ordered up software applications, and Indian programmers such as Fernandes dutifully delivered. But somewhere along the way, Fernandes became more confident and outspoken. He began questioning the Americans and suggesting cheaper, faster ways to run their businesses. They listened."Most of the companies in the U.S. used to see Indian companies as sweatshops," said Fernandes, 33, who began as a programmer but is now the director of engineering at Reston-based Approva Corp.'s offices here, supervising product-development teams, tracking projects and improving engineering techniques. "The changes have been phenomenal."
New rules in India India has played by its own rules and been successful in the offshore market. But now Indian businesses are expected to play by international investor's rules. Can they succeed?
India attractive offshore location despite wage hikes
By John Ribeiro
India is still an attractive offshore location for software development and other IT services, despite increasing staff salaries, according to analysts.
The cost advantage of hiring engineers in India is likely to continue for at least another five years, said Sudin Apte, senior analyst and country manager for India at research firm Forrester Research.
Stronger IPR Protection in IndiaBy Carol Kendrick
IPR Protection is something that every outsourcing firm prioritizes when dealing with their outsourcing contracts. In response to this, India’s Ministry of Information recently amended their IP…
Rural Outsourcing in IndiaBy Carol Kendrick
M.S. Swaminathan, a known scientist in India recently made a remark stating that rural outsourcing could be the answer in the improvement of rural areas in India. Dr. Swaminathan mentioned different…
Design Outsourcing in IndiaBy Carol Kendrick
It seems like there are no limitations when it comes to thinking of a new industry to be outsourced. This time, its design outsourcing. Big-sized firms like GE, LG, Phillips and the like are already…
ES Outsourcing in IndiaBy Carol Kendrick Aside from KPO (Knowledge Process Outsourcing), another industry is set to join the outsourcing move in India. The time for outsourcing engineering services has arrived. NASSCOM’s recent study….
KPO in India: ThrivingBy Carol Kendrick Before, India was only known as a Business Process Outsourcing (BPO) destination but nowadays, another type of outsourcing seems to be taking over India. This new type of outsourcing is called KPO or….
India: Still Number OneBy Carol Kendrick India still remains as the number one outsourcing destination despite the rising salary rate in the said country. This was the given prediction of outsourcing analysts despite the continuing rise of…
Make India outsourcing hub for manufacturing, says MurthyBy Danny N R Narayana Murthy, chief mentor of Infosys, said that India should now focus on becoming the world's preferred manufacturing destination. By becoming the global outsourcing and off shoring...
Indian tech firms overcoming infrastructure woesBy Danny According to the National Association of Software and Service Companies (NASSCOM), India’s IT industry would see positive growth despite infrastructure problems. NASSCOM stated that total…
India’s Outsourcing Revenue Is Growing In the past few weeks, there have been rumours and speculations about the
outsourcing business in India. Many people went to the extent of saying that outsourcing boom was over. However, the latest report suggests that India's outsourcing revenue rose 32 percent to reach US$6.6 billion in the second quarter of 2006. There is no doubt that India remains the most preferred destination for Western companies to shift their back-office work. This report will definitely boost the confidence of Indian outsourcing industry.
"Engineered in India": India waiting to cash in on global engineering outsourcing
India, already spearheading the IT outsourcing market, is now set to expand services in engineering services. Globally, the highest spend in the engineering industry comes from powerhouses such as the US, Germany, and Japan.
Medical Outsourcing Wave in India Analysts believe that another larger outsourcing wave is all set to sweep the Indian BPO industry. A number of hospitals in the US and the UK are outsourcing laboratory and diagnostic tests to India at a lower cost. It costs about 70 to 80 percent less by outsourcing their businesses. Indian labs offer the facility where over 1,500 tests can be conducted under one roof. At the moment, this is generally limited to highly specialized tests. Experts say that outsourcing of laboratory testing and diagnostic services all set to become big business in India.
Truck Makers Outsourcing to India European and American truck makers see India as an outsourcing hub. They are looking towards India to outsource their business operations. Recently,
Volvo Trucks has set up a product development group in India. The main objective of Volvo is to support development activity in North America and Europe. It will outsource components worth 70 million euros this year. Volvo currently has 70 engineers working on chassis and cam development to support R&D centres in North America and Europe.
Outsourcing of Education in India In the global arena, India's education sector receives high praise for providing quality education and knowledge to students who excel internationally. However, the ground reality is something different. Although India is ahead of others in providing total number of higher qualified professionals, Indian higher education is still slow in responding to the challenges posed by globalization. Globalization poses numerous challenges for higher education. As the market for talent has become global, most countries face problems in providing better quality of education in a competitive environment.
India is Leading Outsourcing Business According to a recent report, more than three-fourth of the top providers of offshore services to US companies have their operations in India. The report was released by the
International Association of Outsourcing Professionals (IAOP). Although China, Philippines and Russia have made steady progress over the years, they are still lagging behind India in outsourcing operations. Most of the top-ranked offshore providers are located in India, thus making it the number one destination for outsourcing.
India: Hot Destination for Outsourcing? Although India always has been preferred as the major destination for outsourcing, some UK firms were hesitant to outsource their businesses because of infrastructure problems. However, in the recent months, Indian companies have resolved the issues attached with infrastructure problems to a considerable extent. Experts believe that India is in a better position to tackle the infrastructure problems that have discouraged some UK firms from outsourcing IT work to the country.
India unbeatable - Reasons why sceptics are wrong! Doubting Thomases have raised two issues in recent times even as the latest strategic review of India's IT and ITeS sector by
Nasscom, the country's largest IT and ITeS industry association has predicted that India is well on track to achieve IT and ITeS exports of $60 billion by 2010, and that it will continue to maintain its leadership in the global BPO market. Rising wages, new challengers The first issue is: with the demand for BPO/KPO out of India rising, the labour cost arbitrage that is now driving BPO/KPO business to India will narrow down…………
IT & BPO industry: India can sustain its global leadership position
The Indian IT and ITES industry is booming as outsourcing and offshoring are catching up fast in the global arena. NASSCOM, the apex organisation of Indian IT & ITES industry, along with McKinsey prepared a detailed report on the future potential of the industry and what India needs to do to get a larger share of the global offshoring cake.
In the last decade, the IT and BPO industries have seen substantial offshoring. India has been the leading offshore destination during this period, and now accounts for 65% of the global industry in offshore IT and 46% of the global Business Process Offshoring (BPO) industry......
What's in store for BPO in India this yearSmall cities, knowledge process outsourcing and global competencies - these are the buzzwords fro the India-based outsourcing industry in 2006. ValueNotes Database looks at whats in store for BPO in India this year.
1.KPO jobs: In demandPredictions of a boom in the knowledge process outsourcing industry are rife, with estimates for the industry size ranging from anywhere between $12 billion and $15.5 billion for 2010. This envisages a growth rate of 40 to 50 percent for the industry for the next five years.....
Why India?Why Outsource Data processing and Software development in India? Just as the Gulf has its natural resources in crude oil and South Africa in diamonds, India's natural resource lie in its abundant technically skilled manpower. India is the world's largest exporter of software (after the U.S.), and is the source of management and technical talent for over 40% of new start-ups in Silicon Valley. Thanks to its large English-speaking scientific and higher education institutions, specialist computer institutes, and low costs of software talent, India has more software companies with ISO 9000 certification than any other country in the world........
Offshoring IT Outsourcing and IndiaOffshore Outsourcing IT has indeed become an unavoidable part of the business world. And it is springing up a world of changes to everyone directly or indirectly associated with it. While outsourcing is helping companies to dramatically lower their costs and as a result drop prices to increase demand for their products or services, attracting new clients and customers and even entering new markets; it is boosting the economic growth of offshore IT outsourcing countries like India.
Inside Offshore Software Outsourcing in IndiaInside Offshore Software Outsourcing in India indicates some of the facts attached with Outsourcing to India. It can offer a huge payback, if you are eager to work at it. Many offshore veterans have shared their opinions for India and overseas services to the country. Today, though, overseas services to India are one of the best methods for no. of information Technology companies to reduce application development and maintenance costs. It also helps the companies in dealing efficiently with the crests and valleys of software requirements in the market, and concentrate on more strategic work......
IT Outsourcing organizations of the worldIndia is home town for some of the largest IT Outsourcing organizations of the world; everything from software development organizations to manufacturers of pharmaceutical products and the global banks, to the world of BPO or information technology, we can say that the business is booming over here. And when it comes to Offshore Outsourcing, we can say India is where the action has taken place in Outsourcing business wherein the cities like Bagalore, Mumbai, Delhi Hyderabad and emerging Ahmedabad are the key players in this sector....
India, the top knowing offshore outsourcing placeIndia take a top position for offshore software outsourcing across the globe but with the excellent government support, China is also on the top way of offshore outsourcing, according to the survey from
Gartner.
For Offshoring destination only India has the excellent combination of good economical resources and forceful technology communication.
Gartner expect it will carry on to pick up the lion's share of world offshore market spending on Information Technology services, which is expected to sum $50 billion by 2007....
India, undisputable king of the Offshore Outsourcing worldDespite strong global challenge India continues to reign as the undisputable leader in Offshore Outsourcing. Though, more and more countries are vying for piece of the Offshore outsourcing pie, India holds her place.
Due to Software Outsourcing Market, world has become a smaller place and the application to different users have become ordained. India neighboring country China is also almost in the same speed. It has been continuously threatening many of the Software Development India and other Software companies in Philippines, Japan, Indonesia, Australia and many other outsourcing destinations....
India's Offshore Outsourcing businessOffshore Outsourcing business in India is expanding not by the day, but in minutes we can see the outsourcing industry gaining momentum success. Accenture, the consultancy and Offshoring Company announced India as most active developing market in Software Development, playing a key role in international delivery model and network.
The American based global Information Technology services and solutions companies, plans to invest Rs. 810 million to expand its operations in India, including its human recources, over the next five to seven years. During the expansion plan, that includes setting up of India Software Development centre, which will be in addition to the existing international services centre in city like Bangalore, with 150 IT Software professionals. This organization also has long-term partnerships with
NIIT and
Tata Infotech for Information Technology and business process outsourcing services by Offshore Outsourcing process.
Indian Outsourcers Roll On with Strong ResultsBy Stan Gibson
Indian outsourcing powerhouses Wipro and Tata Consultancy Services have both reported strong fourth quarters and stellar yearly results. The announcements came on the heels of a strong quarter reported by Infosys Technologies the week of April 10. Satyam will report its results later this week.
Rural Outsourcing in IndiaBy Carol Kendrick
M.S. Swaminathan, a known scientist in India recently made a remark stating that rural outsourcing could be the answer in the improvement of rural areas in India.
Dr. Swaminathan mentioned different possible outcomes if rural outsourcing would push though. One of the reasons that he mentioned was rural outsourcing’s ability to develop the skills of the youth who are residing in these “underdeveloped” areas. Aside fro, that, rural outsourcing would bring about “re-training and re-deployment” to rural workers who are in need of such intervention in their careers….
Outsourcing to India is ‘short-sighted’A former IT freelancer who now runs a recruitment agency has argued that outsourcing IT functions to India is short-sighted.’
Chris Barlett, who founded IT recruitment company, GCS, in 1989, asks why would agencies ‘ bite the hand that feeds them?’
Chris Barlett writes:
Using cheap but highly-qualified technicians and call centre staff in India has been increasing trend for many UK IT companies and recruitment agencies keen to reduce overheads in areas such as software development and candidate research…
Asia’s IT dynamo will maintain its advantage over Britain for 30 years and will trump the U.S. for 18, says researcher Everest
India will maintain its low-cost IT skills advantage in the offshore outsourcing market for at least another 30 years, according to a new study. 2005Ensuring India's offshoring futureThe country must not only produce more top-quality engineers but also show the world the depth and quality of its talent in other fields—and in cities beyond Bangalore and Mumbai.
Diana Farrell, Noshir Kaka, and Sascha Stürze
2005 Special Edition: Fulfilling India's promiseIndia's offshoring sector, the world's largest and fastest growing, is dominated by IT services, which play a major role in the country's overall economic growth. In 2004–05, the Indian offshore IT and business-process-outsourcing industry will generate approximately $17.3 billion in revenues and employ an estimated 695,000 people. By 2007–08, that workforce will consist of about 1,450,000 to 1,550,000 people, and the industry will account for 7 percent of India's GDP.
1Fulfilling India’s promiseThe country must take steps to boost its economic prospects, lift its living standards, and improve opportunities for the multinational companies that do business there.
Rajat K. Gupta
2005 Special Edition: Fulfilling India's promiseLet's praise India for its recent economic achievements. By now, they are familiar: the growth of a world-class IT sector, the development of a competitive automotive industry, and a burgeoning middle class.
But the time for self-congratulation is over. Increasingly, India knows it must get on with the job of sharing the country's newfound wealth with the vast majority of its people, who so far have little to show for the economic growth that followed the liberalization of 1991.
The right passage to IndiaCompanies attracted to the country’s potential must do more than merely transplant products and systems that have succeeded elsewhere.
Kuldeep P. Jain, Nigel A. S. Manson, and Shirish Sankhe
Web exclusive, February 2005India, for some time now the focal point of the global trend toward strategic offshoring, has simultaneously become appealing as a market in its own right. With GDP growth more than double that of the United States and the United Kingdom during the past decade, and with forecast continued real annual growth of almost 7 percent,
1 India is one of the world's most promising and fastest-growing economies, and multinational companies are eagerly investing there.
Innovation from AsiaThe capabilities that companies gain serving cost-conscious consumers in emerging markets can become competitive advantages in developed ones.
Lenny T. Mendonca
2005 Number 1The threat of competition from Asia worries Western executives in nearly every product and service industry. The chief concern for many is the impact of low-cost Chinese manufacturing and Indian services on global pricing. Focusing on this concern alone represents a profound misunderstanding of the nature of the competitive threat.
As this issue of
The McKinsey Quarterly makes clear, Asia is no longer merely a source of comparative advantage based on low-cost labor; it is fast becoming a source of competitive advantage based on management innovation. The implication is clear: Asia can now compete on much more than price.
The next wave in US offshoringOffshore manufacturing in low-cost countries will soon increase sharply as companies there develop capacity in industries previously unaffected by it. Skill-intensive US sectors such as pharmaceuticals and auto parts haven't shifted production overseas so far but are likely to feel the brunt of this next wave of outsourcing.The take-away By 2015, manufacturing imports from developing countries to the United States could increase to more than 50 percent of total US manufacturing imports, up from 42 percent in 2002—a shift worth hundreds of billions of dollars.This article includes the following exhibits: · Exhibit 1: Imports from low-cost countries and prospects for offshoring production to them in the future
· Exhibit 2: US manufacturing imports from low-cost countries
· Exhibit 3: Projected US imports from low-cost countries in 2nd-wave skill-intensive sectors
An upgrade for the Indian IT services industry-India’s offshoring specialists have grown dramatically in the past decade, but they will need to raise their game to maintain the same torrid pace.
-Among the many challenges are increased competition from established global IT services companies, a shortage of workers fluent in European languages, and the rise of rival offshoring destinations.
-To respond, Indian companies must grow beyond their roots, building global organizations that can serve multinational clients anywhere in the world, and evolve to offer higher-value-added services.
-The possibility of a virulent offshoring backlash in Western countries is a wild card that could hinder the growth of Indian IT services companies.
Article at a glance:
- The world's largest corporations are greatly increasing their scale and scope, and the resulting mega-institutions are fundamentally changing the landscape of business.
- These mega-institutions have disproportionately high profits and market values because they understand the link between their profitability and the talents of their professionals and knowledge workers.
- Mega-institutions are pioneering a new model of competitive advantage by using their huge size to develop and exploit intangible assets in novel ways.
- The corporate strategists of these companies must now develop new performance metrics and business models as well as find ways of overcoming the organizational barriers that size creates.
This article includes the following exhibits:
- Exhibit 1: Mega-institutions are developing extraordinary scale
- Exhibit 2: Book value is shrinking for the top 150 companies
- Exhibit 3: Increasing income with fewer employees
- Exhibit 4: Increasing returns on net income per employee
- Exhibit 5: The leaders achieve higher levels of profit per employee
- Sidebar exhibits: How complexity affects business
The head of McKinsey's Indian offices addresses the concerns of senior multinational executives. Adil S. Zainulbhai 2005 Special Edition: Fulfilling India's promise
The world's senior executives, many of whom were slow to recognize China's vast potential, are flocking to India for fear of missing out on one of the last great growth stories. But the country and its economy present a mosaic of contradictions. India is a stable democracy, but an undercurrent of religious and ethnic tension remains. Cities such as Bangalore and Hyderabad are bustling high-tech centers, but Mumbai, the financial and media center, is a confusion of gridlock and slums. Foreign investment is desperately needed, especially to build the manufacturing sector, but India has been painfully slow in opening up many of its markets.
Business leaders across India share an upbeat vision of the future while recognizing the obstacles ahead.
Erica J. Bever, Elizabeth Stephenson, and David W. Tanner
2005 Special Edition: Fulfilling India's promiseBy and large, executives in India
1 think that the opening up of the global economy presents them with huge opportunities for growth. A
McKinsey Quarterly survey, which polled more than 9,300 executives around the world, including 537 in India (Exhibit 1), shows that Indian business leaders are much more optimistic about the future than are their international peers. Yet rather surprisingly for a country with one of the world's largest labor pools, they see the high cost and low availability of talent as the single greatest constraint on their companies—a problem that worries them much more than it does their counterparts around the world.
2Multinational corporations are starting to see the country's potential.
Shashank Luthra, Ramesh Mangaleswaran, and Asutosh Padhi
2005 Special Edition: Fulfilling India's promiseIndia leads the market in offshored back-office services, but as a manufacturing center it lags behind China, Thailand, and the rest of Asia. The reasons are well documented: multinational companies operating in India must overcome erratic electricity supplies, poor roads, and gridlocked seaports and airports while contending with government policies that discourage hiring and hold back domestic demand for goods in many sectors.
India could be a global leader in education and financial services, to name just two possibilities, asserts the IMF's chief economist—but not until it opens up to the world. Raghuram G. Rajan 2005 Special Edition: Fulfilling India's promise India fever is spreading in the world's investment community. The Western press rarely mentions that certified growth miracle, that leviathan of global trade—China—without adding "and India." In an admittedly unscientific test, a Google search reveals over 10 times more references linking "India" and "China" than "India" and "tiger" and 100 times more than "India" and "maharaja." But amid all the hoopla, it is well worth asking whether India is really ready to play a central role in the global economy. Instead of going through the familiar litany of strengths and weaknesses, it would be useful to pose the question in a different way: does India have the mind-set it needs to be a player in a globally integrated economy?
Service Management and Employment Systems in U.S. and Indian Call Centers This paper draws on a comparative international survey of management strategies and employment practices in U.S. and Indian customer contact call centers. The paper compares these practices across three types of centers: U.S. in-house, U.S. outsourced, and Indian outsourced-offshore operations and considers two questions. First, how similar or different are call center management strategies and employment systems in each type of establishment? Second, what are the implications of variation in management practices for outcomes such as turnover, which is a major problem for service quality and productivity in the industry. The paper concludes with a discussion of policy implications.
Product Analysis: Imported Java Patni Delivers
We contracted with a well-known Indian outsourcer to develop an application for our fictional NWC Inc. What we learned will help you decide if offshore is right for your enterprise.
We've been bombarded by analysts, vendors, trade groups and reporters telling us how great (or horrible), how cheap (or expensive) application-development outsourcing is. But we had to find out more about it for ourselves, so we invited top offshore vendors to develop a customer-service application for the production environment of our mock NWC Inc. enterprise, and planned to use the review process to determine whether we would recommend outsourcing as an alternative to in-house development.
India eyes role as hub for aerospace outsourcing
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 Jay Shankar
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 February 14, 2005
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 After courting success with information technology, India is poised to become a key outsourcing hub for global aerospace firms as it has cheap and skilled engineers on offer, top officials say. "India's aerospace industry is at the take-off stage,'' said Edward Gordon, manager of offset programs of Northrop Grumman, a United States-based defense firm with operations in 25 nations. |
Dataquest-IDC-NASSCOM Survey: India's Best T-Schools Yes, the IITs top the Tech schools. But surprise: missing from the Top 10 are BITS Pilani, IIT Roorkee and DCE, edged out by the NITs and the Thapar and Netaji Subhas Institutes
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Bhaswati Chakravorty
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There are T-Schools and there are T-Schools. But which is the fairest? What sets the best apart from the good? Who's the laggard? Here's your opportunity to find out. The second T-School survey conducted by Dataquest-IDC-Nasscom throws up some interesting results. Sit straight and fasten your seat belts as we zip you through some of the key highlights of the study.
IT Cities in IndiaThere is an increasing global interest in India for IT Services and BPO. The requirements range from establishing relationships with 3rd party service providers to, increasingly, evaluating setting up captive centres as subsidiaries of the global organisation. An area of confusion continues to be the differences in the various regions and cities in India in which to base operations in or have work done by a 3rd party provider. There is a growing recognition that India is not Mumbai and that India is not Bangalore, but a mosaic of various regions and indeed cities, each of which brings with it certain pros and cons. These trade-offs need to be actively evaluated as part of the overall evaluation and selection process. This requirement becomes more critical as the resource pool in India starts to tighten, wages are spiralling upwards and companies start to grapple with attrition rates that are reminiscent of the dot-com boom days.
As more firms send research to India and China, could the U.S. fall behind?
A decade ago, Whitefield, a remote suburb of Bangalore, made headlines on those rare occasions when gangs of armed bandits burst into homes at night. Today that former stretch of farmland and scattered houses is disturbed only by giant cranes, cement mixers and trucks piled up with white sand. Buildings of glass and steel are rising all over, as Bangalore's fast-expanding outsourcing industry radiates far beyond the city. Perhaps the most impressive spot in Whitefield is the campus of SAP Labs. The main building, with its comfortable sofas and a sunny atrium, is a sumptuous workplace by Indian standards.
Webcast: Working with India: What To Know before You GoAre you fully prepared for your first business trip to India or to work with your India-based offshore team?
Understanding cultural differences can change how you approach business relationships, establish trust, negotiate and motivate, and manage your project.
Sixty minutes worth of cultural training will help you avoid costly and damaging cross-cultural blunders and become more effective in your outsourcing engagement with India.
In this interactive Web briefing, you’ll learn about business customs and protocol, skills for successful communication and negotiation, and strategies for working with Indian teams.
Epson plans to make India outsourcing hubBy Danny
Imaging Products Company Epson is looking at India to become its outsourcing centre for software development. The Japanese-based company plans to expand its products range and establish itself as a technology driven company.
According to Epson executive vice president and chief financial officer Toshio Kumura, India would be the primary choice for software development intended for electronic devices being developed for commercial purposes.
Microsoft expanding fast in India outsourcingBy Danny
Microsoft plans to double its staff in outsourcing centres in Hyderbad and Bangalore in India by March 2006.
Tess Field, Microsoft's head of human resources in India, said, "We aim to ramp up the strength at the India Development Centre [located in Hyderabad] by another 1,000 professionals."
India faces high quality talent shortageBy Danny
India is facing a shortage of high quality workers as outsourcing opportunities from the West keep coming into the country finding that top-quality workers are now fully employed. As a result, BPO companies are now looking at smaller Indian cities to host their operations, but have found that the workforce there is not as good.
India Can Be Aerospace Off shoring BaseBy Danny
India’s aerospace industry is being promoted an as off shoring base for foreign companies. According to defence Minister Pranab Mukherkee, joint ventures that take advantage of India’s low-cost…
With a shortfall of professional talent in architecture and rising costs, the US and Europe are looking to India to source architects, graphic designers, and software professionals to fuel the needs in the field of architecture. Indian service providers are now able to provide complete solutions including design concept and 3-D simulation of projects.
Consultant A.T. Kearney has released the latest annual ranking of top outsourcing destinations in the world. According to the Global Services Location Index, Southeast Asian countries are the best outsourcing destinations, with India topping the list and China and Malaysia following in that order. Philippines is fourth in the list, followed by Singapore and Thailand.
Outsourcing from India instead
In a surpriseing reverse of job shifts, it is now actuallu India's turn to outsource. In light of the uproar over jobs being sucked out from developed countries and into the laps of workers from lower-costing countries, it would come as a refreshing break to hear of jobs generated by India, instead of for it.
India IT firms enjoying outsourcing cash flow
Top Indian IT firms are all revved up with glistening quarterly profits to report, up by about a third from last year. Tata Consultancy Infosys Technologies head the list of companies riding tthe crest of the outsourcing wave.
The bigger software companies are projected to do better by the second half of 2005, though the smaller firms may have to grapple with manpower management and cost issues.
India still leading in IT OffshoringDespite attempts from China, the Philippines, and Eastern Europe to take over the top spot in IT offshoring, India still holds the distinction of being deemed the most desirable destination. Wipro chairman Azim Premji points out that
India still has an overwhelming advantage in IT offshoring.
"Areas such as China, Eastern Europe and the Philippines are becoming major players in IT offshoring but India still has an overwhelming advantage because of the support of the government and the country's huge talent pool."
The ways of Indian software outsourcing industryFrom trading in traditional resources since time immemorial, India is now emerging as the outsourcing capital of the world. Providing outsourcing services in various sectors, India also tops the global output in most of them.
Vendors and Outsources are making profits in the Indian software development market. Certainly Top Software Company in India llike TCS has promising ramp for Indian crews of 39,000 employess now. Entrepreneurs are atill thinking of expansion, recruiting nearly 4000 more employees in the company.....
Labour shortages for India’s out-sourcersTHE last thing you would expect India’s call-centre bosses to be worrying about is a shortage of staff. The entire business process outsourcing (BPO) industry, including a wide range of services besides manning the telephone, employs an estimated 348,000 people. Nearly 3m English speakers graduate from university every year.
India’s IT and outsourcing industriesTHE arriving businessman, anxious to get to grips with India’s information-technology industry in its very capital, may need a little patience. He might meet his first traffic jam just outside Bangalore’s airport. He can examine the skeleton of the early stages of a planned flyover on the airport road….
India as Number 1By Michael Mandel The New Economist
points us to a new
report on the Indian economy by Deutsche Bank. The DB report reproduces a table, which I've never seen before, ranking which countries are most attractive for outsourcing and off shoring. India comes in #1, well ahead of China (the original source for the table seems to be consulting firm A.T. Kearney)….
India: An Agent of ChangeThat’s how Inforsys CEO Nandan Nilekani sees the coutry’s impact on the U.S. economy, through globalization and outsourcing.While many U.S. tech companies are stuck in the slow-demand doldrums, India’s Infosys Technologies (INFY) is soaring. Revenues were up 42% last quarter. The reason: Infosys and its Indian brethren are rewriting the rules of global competition in the software and tech-services industries with their use of highly skilled but low-cost Indian talent.
2004Exploding the myths of offshoringFar from damaging the economy of the United States, offshoring should enable its companies to direct resources to next-generation technologies and ideas—if public policy doesn't get in the way.
Martin N. Baily and Diana Farrell
Web exclusive, July 2004With the digital revolution and the dramatic fall in international telecommunications costs comes the prospect that white-collar jobs—once insulated from global competition—can be performed offshore, in low-wage nations such as India, where labor can be hired for as little as one-tenth its cost in the United States. Call-center agents, data processors, medical technicians, and software programmers could all find their jobs at risk from the nation's growing trade in services with emerging markets. In fact, offshoring is frequently blamed for the agonizingly slow pace of job growth in the United States, despite a recovering economy.
A richer future for IndiaThe wealth generated by India's fast-growing information technology and business-process-outsourcing industries shows that the country has started living up to its economic potential. Unfortunately, they produce just 3 percent of GDP and employ less than one-half of 1 percent of the nonfarm labor force. By contrast, most sectors of India's economy remain shielded from global competition by high tariffs and restrictions on foreign direct investment and are thus woefully uncompetitive. Although some might argue that removing these barriers would threaten social objectives such as the protection of jobs and incomes, a robust economy would be more likely to realize them.The take-away If India is to replicate the success of its IT and outsourcing industries elsewhere in its economy, its leaders must lower barriers to trade and encourage foreign investment in other sectors.
The world’s two biggest developing countries are taking different paths to economic prosperity. Which is the better one? Diana Farrell, Tarun Khanna, Jayant Sinha, and Jonathan R. Woetzel 2004 Special Edition: China today First it was China. The rest of the world looked on in disbelief, then awe, as the Chinese economy began to take off in the 1980s at what seemed like lightning speed and the country positioned itself as a global economic power. GDP growth, driven largely by manufacturing, rose to 9 percent in 2003 after reaching 8 percent in 2002. China used its vast reservoirs of domestic savings to build an impressive infrastructure and sucked in huge amounts of foreign money to build factories and to acquire the expertise it needed. In 2003 it received $53 billion in foreign direct investment, or 8.2 percent
1 of the world's total—more than any other country.
India: Comparison of Locations
Services globalization has turned the world into a global village, enabling the seamless delivery of IT and business processes across time zones. As a result, traditional and emerging globalisation destinations such as India, the Philippines, China and Russia are developing Centers of Excellence. These Centers of Excellence epitomize the best of the four core evaluation criteria that companies look to optimize: cost, control, quality and risk.
Lessons Of OutsourcingIn Four Historical Tales
By Bob Davis
Staff Reporter of The Wall Street Journal
What could be a more modern dilemma? High-speed data links allow employers to ship white-collar jobs from rich countries to India, China and other nations where workers earn far less.
The New Face of the Silicon AgeHow India became the capital of the computing revolution.By Daniel H. PinkMeet the pissed-off programmer. If you've picked up a newspaper in the last six months, watched CNN, or even glanced at Slashdot, you've already heard his anguished cry.
Study Ranks Top Indian Cities neoIT, a specialized consulting firm providing advice and governance on global/offshore ITO and BPO, has studied 27 cities throughout the entire year, and come up with a ranking that will allow clients to see which cities are best for BPO (business process outsourcing) and ITO (information technology offshoring).
GE rethinks Indian outsourcingTHEY invented the game; now they have changed the rules. General Electric's back-office services arm, GE Capital International Services, or GECIS, is one of the oldest and biggest of India's business-process outsourcing (BPO) outfits. Formed in 1997, it has been a model for hundreds of other firms that have sought to cut costs by shifting to India back-office jobs that can be performed remotely (see our survey of outsourcing in this issue)…
Now the IT department is off to IndiaIN A shiny new building in the drab construction site that is Noida, a Delhi suburb, teams of young Indian engineers are, in a manner of speaking, managing the world. A number of America's best-known companies have entrusted the remote running of part of their global computing networks to HCL Comnet. This information-technology services firm is at the crest of what Gartner, a consultancy, has called the next big wave of Indian outsourcing deals, covering remote infrastructure-management services…Outsourcing to IndiaFIRST they steal our jobs, then our credit-card numbers. Those seem to be the fears inspired by outsourcing back-office financial-services work to India. In both Europe and America, the argument that outsourcing costs jobs at home still has political resonance…Outsourcing in IndiaTHERE comes a point in any boom when the weak go under and the strong go shopping. In India's thriving software and remote-services industries (call centres, for instance) bigger fish have for some time been gobbling up small fry. The shake-out has barely begun, but already has a cross-border dimension…India's growing strength in innovationUNDERSTANDABLY, many Indians take umbrage at the wave of protectionist rhetoric engulfing the American election campaign. Not only do they point to the endless lectures they have received from Americans in years past on the benefits of globalisation and open markets. They also resent an insinuation underlying the debate over outsourcing: that all countries such as India have to offer is cheap labour and a telecommunications link…Outsourcing in IndiaTHE annual jamboree of Nasscom, the lobby for Indian information-technology (IT) and services firms held in Mumbai this week, has for years been a forum for self-congratulation. Whatever other ills may plague India, its software and, more recently, outsourcing firms—call centres, back-office processing, technical support and the like—are an unfailing source of pride, able to take on the best in the world. They also make up the fastest-growing segment of what is now a booming economy…An Indian Adventure for Tech InvestorsThe country's outsourcing giants such as Wipro, Infosys, and Cognizant are still alluring, despite the offshore bashing in Washington With American employers doing little hiring in the U.S. right now, outsourcing has become a dirty word. On the stump, Democratic Presidential candidate John Kerry is railing against "Benedict Arnold" companies that ship jobs to low-wage countries. Other vote-hungry polls are threatening legislation to curb the trend that threatens to move 3.3 million U.S. service-industry jobs offshore over the next 15 years, according to Forrester Research in Cambridge, Mass….
Outsourcing: Fortress India?Call centers and credit-card processors are tightening security to ease U.S. and European fears of identity theftA line of neatly dressed workers files into the Golden Millennium, a shimmering glass-and-steel building in central Bangalore. One by one, they swipe ID cards through a reader, then empty their pockets and bags and stuff cell phones, PDAs, and even pens and notebooks into lockers as a dour security guard watches.
2003Who wins in offshoringThe savings enjoyed by companies that move labor-intensive service industry work from the United States to countries with lower labor costs have triggered an exodus of US business-processing jobs. Some analysts project that by 2015 roughly 3.3 million of them will have moved abroad. This prospect has prompted calls for the government to restrict offshoring. But they overlook the benefits that accrue to the US economy from it. The take-away A study by the McKinsey Global Institute details the substantial positive economic benefits to the US economy from offshoring.
The next hurdle for Indian ITSurging demand for offshore IT services has vaulted Infosys Technologies into the ranks of India's premier technology services companies and positioned it at the epicenter of the offshoring debate. In this
McKinsey Quarterly interview, cofounder and chairman Narayana Murthy discusses the Bangalore-based company’s rise and its new challenges as multinational IT services firms open their own software-development centers in India and customers squeeze IT vendors there as everywhere else.The take-away Narayana Murthy, the company's cofounder and chairman, says that the burgeoning business in offshore services isn't simply about arbitraging low-cost labor—it's about honing the skills and processes to provide low-cost, high-quality software-development services remotely.
Inside Outsourcing in IndiaOutsourcing to India can provide a huge payback—if you're willing to work at it. Two offshore veterans share their hard-earned lessons to help you determine if Indian outsourcing is right for your company.
BY STEPHANIE OVERBY
DON'T BOTHER TRADING horror stories about outsourcing to India with John Doucette. He'll trump you every time. "I was doing this back when you didn't want to be doing this," says Doucette, CIO of Hartford, Conn.-based United Technologies, who first sent coding work to India more than a decade ago when he worked at General Electric. "Most CIOs don't have any clue what it used to be like. You had people who couldn't speak English. The telecommunications were terrible. It was awful trying to transfer files back and forth."
The following is a summary of TierSolution’s experiences in opening a full service offshore office in India. TierSolution is a boutique software company that provides engineering solutions for larger companies. The entire process took about one year from the initial inquiry to being operational, with many mishaps along the way. This story describes our experiences, both positive and negative, in offshoring.
Outsourcing to India and elsewhereHE IS a senior underwriter for Friends Provident, a life insurer. The lives that concern him are British. But he is in Pune, India…
Worries for India's IT firmsTHE boom in business process outsourcing (BPO) to India replicates the explosion a few years ago of the country's software industry. Indeed, with even run-of-the-mill call-centres now being labelled an information-technology-enabled service (ITES), it is part of the same phenomenon. Many of the same firms are involved, and face again the challenges of coping with spectacular growth…
India's IT industryIT DOES not have the high-street resonance of a Nike, a Pepsi or a Windows. In its unglamorous but lucrative niche in the bank back office, however, FLEXCUBE is the brand of choice. According to rankings published in March by International Banking Systems, a trade journal, it is in fact the world's best-selling banking-software product…
Outsourcing to IndiaPOOR as it is, India is rich in well-educated, English-speaking, young people. It has become a prodigious exporter of their remote services: as skilled software coders and accentless call-centre voices; as long-distance sales-people and invisible insurance clerks; as diligent medical-record transcribers and patient number crunchers. Multinational financial firms have been among their best customers…
Indian software firmsSURGING revenues, strong profit growth, lucrative new contracts and a massive recruitment drive—can this really be the information technology (IT) industry in 2003? Yes, provided you are in India, where software firms are flourishing thanks to booming outsourcing business from some of the world's leading multinationals. Though the Indian outsourcing industry was heavily hyped a couple of years ago, its current strength reflects something of a recovery after a tough time at the start of the decade, when the bursting of the tech bubble and a slowdown in America led many big firms to freeze all technology spending, even when, as with outsourcing, it could cut costs…
Rising to India’s ChallengeIt is easy to lose sight of India's remarkable achievements in information technology amid the cries of alarm from Silicon Valley about America's jobless recovery. No less an authority than Intel Corp. (INTC ) founder Andrew S. Grove warns that American information technology could follow the path of steel into decline. With virtually every major U.S. corporation off shoring operations to India -- especially such services as law, accounting, design, and medicine -- a growing chorus is asking whether India's high-tech success is a direct threat to American prosperity.
Other
A buyer's guide to outsourcing in India
INDIA : Leader
Geopolitical risk: High
English proficiency: Good
Average IT programmer salary: $5,880/year; $18-$25/hour
Infrastructure/Communications: Poor. However, the government is attempting to strengthen telecom infrastructure and build fiber-optic networks in city centers of software activity, as well as providing uninterrupted power supply.
Pros: With the early-mover advantage, India remains the offshore country of choice: a large, low-cost, English-speaking talent pool and the most mature market in the world.
Cons: Poor infrastructure, in general, political instability, distance and increased competition from other developing nations threaten India's position as outsourcing king of the world. Supply may not continue to meet demand.
Aerospace gets outsourcedPropelled by its reputation in the software industry, Indiatakes on theglobal aerospace business.
October 31, 2005 Print IssueAs the largest civil aircraft ever built readied for rollout in Toulouse, France, in January of this year, a group of people celebrated big in an unlikely venue halfway across the world: Bangalore.
An Updated Guide to Establishing a Subsidiary in India
Businesses in the U.S. continue to move a portion of their development, support and other operations offshore to India, primarily for cost-saving reasons. Venture capital investors may require such outsourcing in order to reduce a company's burn rate. While a U.S. company may initially contract for services with a third party in India, many companies establish their operations in India through incorporation of a subsidiary, a private limited company under the India CompaniesAct of 1956, as amended (the "Companies Act"). This memorandum summarizes certain of the legal and administration issues that a U.S. company (the "U.S. company") should consider in establishing an Indian subsidiary.
Culture Notes: Change Management and How It Can HelpBy
Shyamal Asangi and Deepali Sathe Improving performance is the driver behind all changes. Outsourcing is a result of change in business policy and it affects people the most. With top management caught up in transition, the segment that is central to the entire exercise -- employees -- are nowhere in reckoning. Fair? Not at all. This is where Change Managers step in -- to manage the ripples created by outsourcing.
Culture Notes: Indians Love Their Job Titles!
By
Deepali Sathe and Shyamal Asangi "Indians tend to be very career-oriented and want to climb the ladder fast. I have a cousin who has been a Cobol programmer for the last 35 years," said Rita Terdiman, principal of consulting firm Conscient, at a seminar on change management. "Most Indian engineers expect to move into managerial roles after five years." Indians attach immense significance to job titles. Flat structures are not welcome.
Everest Research: Trends in OffshoringBy
Dian Schaffhauser Everest Research Institute, the research division of Everest Group, an outsourcing advisory firm, recently announced that it expected labor arbitrage -- the key cost-savings benefit of offshore outsourcing -- to continue to drive sourcing decisions for the next 30 years. It struck us that projections don't often go that far into the future. These researchers were truly putting a stake in the ground for the long-term.
How to keep the offshore hidden costs in check - part 2: Transitioning cost
"The transition period is perhaps the most expensive stage of an offshore endeavor. It takes from three months to a full year to completely handover the work to an offshore partner."
-CIO article on hidden costs of offshore outsourcing.
Why should the transition cost be so high? In this article, we discuss some of the reasons for the high transition cost and some best practices to reduce it
How To Make Your India Site Visits More EffectiveBy
Zinnov Offshoring Research and Consulting It's not a good idea to finalize your long-term offshore service provider selections without a trip to evaluate their offshore locations and gain firsthand knowledge of their capabilities. However, visitors are often overwhelmed by Indian hospitality and miss out on some of key aspects of their visits. In this article, we highlight some of the areas you should look out for during your trip to India. This is by no means an exhaustive list, but we hopeit will get you thinking in the right direction about your future site visits to India.
How To Reduce Offshore Hidden CostsBy
Zinnov Offshoring Research and Consulting According to a CIO article published in 2003, if you're sending $10 million worth of work to India, selecting a vendor could cost you anywhere from .2% to 2% of the price each year -- $20,000 to $200,000. Likewise, it stated that the transition costs could be the most expensive aspect of the offshoring endeavor. Should vendor selection be that expensive? What are the reasons for the high cost of transitioning work? In this article, we discuss some of the reasons for the high price tab for these phases of offshoring and provide you with some best practices for reducing the expense.
How To Set Up an Offshore Development Center in IndiaBy
Zinnov Offshoring Research and Consulting Often US companies underestimate the process involved in setting up and managing a development center. Many multinational companies that have started development centers in India in the last few years have reconsidered the wisdom of their decision due to the issues they have at the development center related to human resources and cost control. Recently, an IT vendor based in India acquired the subsidiaries of two US companies when the subsidiaries were unable to ramp up as planned.
Knowledge Process Outsourcing: The Big GameBy
Deepali Sathe and Aradhana Touted as the Next Great Thing to happen to the outsourcing industry in India, knowledge services or KPO, could outpace business process outsourcing. While the latter draws upon the process expertise of the vendor, the former utilizes specialized knowledge skills.
One Programmer’s Encounter with Outsourcing By
Josh EvittMy experience with IT outsourcing began in early 2004. The company I worked for at the time had recently been purchased by another company, and the new owners had already begun outsourcing some of their work to an independent Indian outsourcing firm based in New Delhi. Part of my job after the buyout involved managing some of the projects that the team in India worked on.
Optimizing Your India Captive Center CompanyBy
Zinnov Offshoring Research and ConsultingTechnology companies such as GE, Texas Instruments and Motorola pioneered offshoring initiatives more than 15 years ago. The focus of these companies was building technology from their Bangalore Centers. Thousands of technology companies have followed that example and are working in various parts of India from their own development centers and through vendor partnerships.
The Basics of Communicating with Your India TeamBy
Alyssa LenhoffTwo years ago, when healthcare technology company St. Croix Systems set up a subsidiary in India, one of the hardest tasks facing the project manager was one he had never anticipated: His overseas team members were too polite.
The big wave: product engg outsourcingRajesh S Kurup in Mumbai | October 29, 200511:39 IST
India, hailed as the outsourcing destination of the world, is all set to prove its mettle in the emerging vertical of offshoring -- product engineering services outsourcing.
Still in its infancy, PES has caught the fancy of Indian information technology majors such as Patni Computer Services, Tata Consultancy Services and Wipro Ltd, among others. The sector is poised to rake in revenues of over $11 billion in the next three years.
Working with India: What To Know before You GoBy
Dian SchaffhauserYou've been in contact with several companies that are based in India. Now the time has come to make site visits and get to know the people at these service providers face to face on their own turf. But you've never been to India and you don't know what to expect. Time for a crash course in cross-cultural training.
Process, Process, Process. Outsourcing to India.
A recent report in CIO magazine recounts a successful long term engagement of software offshore outsourcing in India. The use of cheaper labor in the developing world has been happening for years. However, offshore outsourcing is now becoming the standard for many North American companies. As more and more companies make use of this process, certain best practices are becoming established.
India Becomes Backoffice to the World
An Economist article provides interesting insights into the outsourcing in the banking industry. It notes that many of the dull jobs that were once piled onto recent college graduates are now being sent to India. A key reason for this occurring has been the difference in cost. These functions can be performed much more inexpensively by Indias highly skilled graduates, than the graduates here in the United States.
India, back office to the worldUNTIL a few months ago, Marc Vollenweider was a partner in the Delhi office of McKinsey, that most patrician of management consultancies. Mr Vollenweider, who is Swiss, is still in Delhi, but in a line of business that sounds almost plebeian by comparison: back-office work. He and his partner (lured from running the Delhi arm of IBM’s research centre) have set up Evalueserve, a firm that undertakes various business processes for clients in Europe and North America, offering cheaper, better and faster service than they can deliver themselves…